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	<title>Comments on: Playing the Mandarin Card in Hong Kong</title>
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	<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/</link>
	<description>The no-nonsense China expat and traveller community.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mandarin-speaker</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-11239</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandarin-speaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-11239</guid>
		<description>T., is it wishful thinking or you are trying to convince yourself? Cantonese speakers feel endangered by the growth of Mandarin in the world In Australia, they also said, Cantonese will always be on top. Now Mandarin has beaten Cantonese in the number of speakers in Australia, besides, Mandarin speakers are the young and the active part of the population. Simplified characters are becoming more common by the Chinese community, government and media.

A similar trend is happening in Canada and the US but it may take longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T., is it wishful thinking or you are trying to convince yourself? Cantonese speakers feel endangered by the growth of Mandarin in the world In Australia, they also said, Cantonese will always be on top. Now Mandarin has beaten Cantonese in the number of speakers in Australia, besides, Mandarin speakers are the young and the active part of the population. Simplified characters are becoming more common by the Chinese community, government and media.</p>
<p>A similar trend is happening in Canada and the US but it may take longer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-10817</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 09:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-10817</guid>
		<description>Everybody knows there's no pleasing the French. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everybody knows there&#8217;s no pleasing the French. <img src='http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-10816</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-10816</guid>
		<description>Matt,

I lived in France as a kid and my French became so good that substitute teachers did not know I was a foreigner.  I majored in French and studied there while in college.  France (Paris, in particular) is the only country of which I am aware that does NOT appreciate foreigners speaking their language. Whenever I go to a foreign country, I try to learn a few words to wow the natives and it always works wonders.  This is not true of France.  Trust me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>I lived in France as a kid and my French became so good that substitute teachers did not know I was a foreigner.  I majored in French and studied there while in college.  France (Paris, in particular) is the only country of which I am aware that does NOT appreciate foreigners speaking their language. Whenever I go to a foreign country, I try to learn a few words to wow the natives and it always works wonders.  This is not true of France.  Trust me.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt K</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-10806</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-10806</guid>
		<description>Both myself and my housemate visited HK from the mainland (at different times). We both had the experience of having to use Mandarin when talking to the taxi drivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both myself and my housemate visited HK from the mainland (at different times). We both had the experience of having to use Mandarin when talking to the taxi drivers.</p>
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		<title>By: Demerzel</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-10768</link>
		<dc:creator>Demerzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 02:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-10768</guid>
		<description>In 2003 when I visited from the Mainland into HK, I tried to talk to a metro person for help in English with no luck in the person understanding me; switched to Chinese and got everything I needed.

Tried the same thing for HK taxis... Did not understand a word of either Mandarin or English. :/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 2003 when I visited from the Mainland into HK, I tried to talk to a metro person for help in English with no luck in the person understanding me; switched to Chinese and got everything I needed.</p>
<p>Tried the same thing for HK taxis&#8230; Did not understand a word of either Mandarin or English. :/</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-10762</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-10762</guid>
		<description>Hi,

 I really enjoyed living in both Hong Kong and Beijing and I tried to immerse into the local culture as good as possible. I observed the following in case of the Hong Kong people, the further away they are from the Island the happier they are to use Mandarin. When you are in Kowloon or the New Territories, you would find a lot more people descending from Mandarin speakers, or a related dialect, one or two generations ago. 

 To my understanding, Hong Kong has a population of about seven million inhabitants. Since 1949, it grew from about half that population to its current size because many migrants came from the Mainland or from Vietnam in the course of the tumultuous state in their homeland. One thing that linguists observed with astonishment was that, on the one hand, immigrants picked up the local Cantonese (which itself evolved out of various Cantonese dialects) very quickly and immersed into the local culture. Maybe because of the prospects that in Hong Kong it was easier to make a fortune than on the Mainland at that time. Therefore, you had to be able to know how to strike deals in the local language, gestures and culture. On the other hand, I heard that the Cantonese in Hong Kong is mainly a spoken language, to find written pieces to teach kids at school about “Hong Kong Cantonese” seems to be very difficult. The language is present in every day culture, like comics, shops etc. that rather uses messages and this impacted also on the way of how newspapers are written and how schooling for kids in primary school is conducted. I guess because the “Hong Kong Cantonese” was influenced by absorbing so many other Chinese dialects and then those migrants learned it from the street, from trading and working. Hence, the roots of many people on the Kowloon side could descend from Mandarin speaking ancestors one or two generations ago.    

 On Hong Kong Island, the tone seems to be set by the multinational corporations and their expat employees, at least, they seem to give you the impression that with English on Hong Kong Island you can get further. Of course, many of the local kids who live on Hong Kong Island and if you want to live there you must have money, be British, or be very creative are probably Western educated. There, I often get the feeling that a Mandarin speaker, such as my wife from Northern China (whose English is perfect btw.) is more likely to be looked down upon than if she was away from Hong Kong Island.  

 The shops that exist there, however, have embraced the stagnating number of wealthy shoppers from the Mainland. In the service industry your Mandarin nowadays gets you further.  


 I love Hong Kong but apart from a nice walk over from Lan Kwai Fong to SoHo to my favourite club Yumla, I enjoy the Kowloon side more. I would love to learn more Cantonese but it is, as said here before quite a difficult language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p> I really enjoyed living in both Hong Kong and Beijing and I tried to immerse into the local culture as good as possible. I observed the following in case of the Hong Kong people, the further away they are from the Island the happier they are to use Mandarin. When you are in Kowloon or the New Territories, you would find a lot more people descending from Mandarin speakers, or a related dialect, one or two generations ago. </p>
<p> To my understanding, Hong Kong has a population of about seven million inhabitants. Since 1949, it grew from about half that population to its current size because many migrants came from the Mainland or from Vietnam in the course of the tumultuous state in their homeland. One thing that linguists observed with astonishment was that, on the one hand, immigrants picked up the local Cantonese (which itself evolved out of various Cantonese dialects) very quickly and immersed into the local culture. Maybe because of the prospects that in Hong Kong it was easier to make a fortune than on the Mainland at that time. Therefore, you had to be able to know how to strike deals in the local language, gestures and culture. On the other hand, I heard that the Cantonese in Hong Kong is mainly a spoken language, to find written pieces to teach kids at school about “Hong Kong Cantonese” seems to be very difficult. The language is present in every day culture, like comics, shops etc. that rather uses messages and this impacted also on the way of how newspapers are written and how schooling for kids in primary school is conducted. I guess because the “Hong Kong Cantonese” was influenced by absorbing so many other Chinese dialects and then those migrants learned it from the street, from trading and working. Hence, the roots of many people on the Kowloon side could descend from Mandarin speaking ancestors one or two generations ago.    </p>
<p> On Hong Kong Island, the tone seems to be set by the multinational corporations and their expat employees, at least, they seem to give you the impression that with English on Hong Kong Island you can get further. Of course, many of the local kids who live on Hong Kong Island and if you want to live there you must have money, be British, or be very creative are probably Western educated. There, I often get the feeling that a Mandarin speaker, such as my wife from Northern China (whose English is perfect btw.) is more likely to be looked down upon than if she was away from Hong Kong Island.  </p>
<p> The shops that exist there, however, have embraced the stagnating number of wealthy shoppers from the Mainland. In the service industry your Mandarin nowadays gets you further.  </p>
<p> I love Hong Kong but apart from a nice walk over from Lan Kwai Fong to SoHo to my favourite club Yumla, I enjoy the Kowloon side more. I would love to learn more Cantonese but it is, as said here before quite a difficult language.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: T.</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-10759</link>
		<dc:creator>T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-10759</guid>
		<description>wonder if it will ever get to the point where the prevalence of Mandarin will cause Guangdongren concern that their language is in danger.

NEVER! Well, maybe in Shenzhen. But the presence of Cantonese is really deeply ingrained in Guangdong, parts of Guangxi, parts of Hainan and Hong Kong (not to mention San Francisco, New York, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Sydney, Manchester, London and parts of LA)


Plus everyone in Hong Kong's mandarin sucks - I live here in Shanghai and my mandarin is mediocre at best (and some days much worse) and everyone says "you have much better mandarin than other people from Hong Kong"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wonder if it will ever get to the point where the prevalence of Mandarin will cause Guangdongren concern that their language is in danger.</p>
<p>NEVER! Well, maybe in Shenzhen. But the presence of Cantonese is really deeply ingrained in Guangdong, parts of Guangxi, parts of Hainan and Hong Kong (not to mention San Francisco, New York, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, Sydney, Manchester, London and parts of LA)</p>
<p>Plus everyone in Hong Kong&#8217;s mandarin sucks - I live here in Shanghai and my mandarin is mediocre at best (and some days much worse) and everyone says &#8220;you have much better mandarin than other people from Hong Kong&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rhys</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-10754</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-10754</guid>
		<description>I wonder if it will ever get to the point where the prevalence of Mandarin will cause Guangdongren concern that their language is in danger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if it will ever get to the point where the prevalence of Mandarin will cause Guangdongren concern that their language is in danger.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-10753</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-10753</guid>
		<description>When I was there two years ago few understood Mandarin fluently. I found it much easier to make myself understood in English. 

If I wanted to take the time to help people understand me both in Guangdong and HK I could use Mandarin, but often English was the way to get things done fast.

I think Cantonese is a much more beautiful language anyway. Wish it was easier to learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was there two years ago few understood Mandarin fluently. I found it much easier to make myself understood in English. </p>
<p>If I wanted to take the time to help people understand me both in Guangdong and HK I could use Mandarin, but often English was the way to get things done fast.</p>
<p>I think Cantonese is a much more beautiful language anyway. Wish it was easier to learn.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/2008/07/30/playing-the-mandarin-card-in-hong-kong/#comment-10752</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=652#comment-10752</guid>
		<description>Wago,
That's definitely true, and I should have mentioned that in my post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wago,<br />
That&#8217;s definitely true, and I should have mentioned that in my post.</p>
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