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	<title>Comments on: Traditional media losing the plot</title>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-13119</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-13119</guid>
		<description>@Fiskadoro: And I&#039;d love naked women to feed me grapes while I type blog posts - but well...

The, somewhat obvious, problem to what you&#039;re suggesting is that bloggers aren&#039;t professionals and largely don&#039;t get paid. It&#039;s not a career, it&#039;s a hobby or at most a stepping stone to a career.

Self-proclaimed &quot;pro-bloggers&quot; are simply just online journalists/columnists.

What you&#039;re saying with &quot;blogging 3.0&quot; is that you want bloggers to become journalists. But then, what would the journalists do? Exactly what they are doing, they&#039;ll become bloggers - their fact checking will suffer, copious amounts of bias and presumption will slip into their work, etc.

I think if traditional media (whether it remains in print form, or online) needs to grab hold tightly to what they are - reputable. They&#039;ve (intentionally or not) blurred this line in the last several years in an effort to compete with bloggers but that&#039;s because they don&#039;t have faith in people&#039;s ability to seek out quality.

If traditional media continues to pour resources (read: money) into maintaining a quality product, they will not have to compete with your average bloggers. And the &quot;bloggers&quot; they do have to compete with won&#039;t really be bloggers, they&#039;ll be journalists (perhaps disguised as bloggers) - and that sort of competition keeps everyone sharp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Fiskadoro: And I&#8217;d love naked women to feed me grapes while I type blog posts &#8211; but well&#8230;</p>
<p>The, somewhat obvious, problem to what you&#8217;re suggesting is that bloggers aren&#8217;t professionals and largely don&#8217;t get paid. It&#8217;s not a career, it&#8217;s a hobby or at most a stepping stone to a career.</p>
<p>Self-proclaimed &#8220;pro-bloggers&#8221; are simply just online journalists/columnists.</p>
<p>What you&#8217;re saying with &#8220;blogging 3.0&#8243; is that you want bloggers to become journalists. But then, what would the journalists do? Exactly what they are doing, they&#8217;ll become bloggers &#8211; their fact checking will suffer, copious amounts of bias and presumption will slip into their work, etc.</p>
<p>I think if traditional media (whether it remains in print form, or online) needs to grab hold tightly to what they are &#8211; reputable. They&#8217;ve (intentionally or not) blurred this line in the last several years in an effort to compete with bloggers but that&#8217;s because they don&#8217;t have faith in people&#8217;s ability to seek out quality.</p>
<p>If traditional media continues to pour resources (read: money) into maintaining a quality product, they will not have to compete with your average bloggers. And the &#8220;bloggers&#8221; they do have to compete with won&#8217;t really be bloggers, they&#8217;ll be journalists (perhaps disguised as bloggers) &#8211; and that sort of competition keeps everyone sharp.</p>
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		<title>By: Fiskadoro</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-13115</link>
		<dc:creator>Fiskadoro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-13115</guid>
		<description>I think Mike is right about it being a case of laziness. In a related aside, It&#039;s every bit as self-important for bloggers to proclaim themselves the new guardians of &quot;news&quot; as it was of print media to proclaim themselves the gatekeepers of the flame. 

Sorry about that flowery metaphor in the previous sentence, I&#039;m a bit excited about a match I saw yesterday.

I suspect that if blogs received nearly the same scrutiny as traditional media did (and devoted as much legwork to tracking down stories instead of just riding shotgun on traditional media so often) there would be a lot less congratulatory posting, but we&#039;d all be better for it. Say what you will about newspaper columnists/stringers and the drivel they print, but they work on a deadline, are pushed to meet it more and more these days and don&#039;t have the benefit of a good night&#039;s rest and rumination on someone else&#039;s piece - they are bringing the orb up the field.

Personally, I have no idea what China 3.0 is. I&#039;d like to see blogging 3.0 though: a little less wild conjecture, the same amount of dogged fact checking (that some do), and much less circle-jerk atmosphere among the lads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mike is right about it being a case of laziness. In a related aside, It&#8217;s every bit as self-important for bloggers to proclaim themselves the new guardians of &#8220;news&#8221; as it was of print media to proclaim themselves the gatekeepers of the flame. </p>
<p>Sorry about that flowery metaphor in the previous sentence, I&#8217;m a bit excited about a match I saw yesterday.</p>
<p>I suspect that if blogs received nearly the same scrutiny as traditional media did (and devoted as much legwork to tracking down stories instead of just riding shotgun on traditional media so often) there would be a lot less congratulatory posting, but we&#8217;d all be better for it. Say what you will about newspaper columnists/stringers and the drivel they print, but they work on a deadline, are pushed to meet it more and more these days and don&#8217;t have the benefit of a good night&#8217;s rest and rumination on someone else&#8217;s piece &#8211; they are bringing the orb up the field.</p>
<p>Personally, I have no idea what China 3.0 is. I&#8217;d like to see blogging 3.0 though: a little less wild conjecture, the same amount of dogged fact checking (that some do), and much less circle-jerk atmosphere among the lads.</p>
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		<title>By: nick mackie</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-12821</link>
		<dc:creator>nick mackie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-12821</guid>
		<description>Yep, I agree with the &quot;lazy&quot; comments. Though I&#039;d add the &quot;F&quot; word in front of &quot;lazy&quot; ! As an old fart who started work before the fax machine was invented, too much reporting is done by folk who rely on secondary sources, don&#039;t take the effort to pose questions for themselves....some even don&#039;t know anyone who&#039;ve ever been to the place that they&#039;re writing about!
Point in question is reporting on China&#039;s vast interior - where it&#039;s difficult trying to capture the essence of a story unless you speak to folk face-to-face, on location. 
As a middle aged old hack, I can vouch for the fact that the media has always had its share of opinionated scribes who don&#039;t like to get their hands dirty. And I remember dealing with an editor, a 10 hour flight west of here, who used to pass comment on China but could only name three Chinese cities (one was Hong Kong). Yep, with budgets being squeezed and a new breed of so called &quot;mainstream reporters&quot; - who never knew the working world before the internet - hacks should have the words &quot;verify all you say&quot; as a screensaver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, I agree with the &#8220;lazy&#8221; comments. Though I&#8217;d add the &#8220;F&#8221; word in front of &#8220;lazy&#8221; ! As an old fart who started work before the fax machine was invented, too much reporting is done by folk who rely on secondary sources, don&#8217;t take the effort to pose questions for themselves&#8230;.some even don&#8217;t know anyone who&#8217;ve ever been to the place that they&#8217;re writing about!<br />
Point in question is reporting on China&#8217;s vast interior &#8211; where it&#8217;s difficult trying to capture the essence of a story unless you speak to folk face-to-face, on location.<br />
As a middle aged old hack, I can vouch for the fact that the media has always had its share of opinionated scribes who don&#8217;t like to get their hands dirty. And I remember dealing with an editor, a 10 hour flight west of here, who used to pass comment on China but could only name three Chinese cities (one was Hong Kong). Yep, with budgets being squeezed and a new breed of so called &#8220;mainstream reporters&#8221; &#8211; who never knew the working world before the internet &#8211; hacks should have the words &#8220;verify all you say&#8221; as a screensaver.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-12809</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-12809</guid>
		<description>alex, in a nutshell, you have just described China 3.0 - mutual back-scratching, an overdeveloped sense of self-importance and a fetish for aprons and rolled trousers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>alex, in a nutshell, you have just described China 3.0 &#8211; mutual back-scratching, an overdeveloped sense of self-importance and a fetish for aprons and rolled trousers.</p>
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		<title>By: Liuzhou Laowai</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-12806</link>
		<dc:creator>Liuzhou Laowai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-12806</guid>
		<description>Western media misreport Chinese story! Stone me! I think I&#039;ll fall down in surprise!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Western media misreport Chinese story! Stone me! I think I&#8217;ll fall down in surprise!</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-12805</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-12805</guid>
		<description>regarding this single incident: of course it is lazy journalism.  if the journalist wanted/needed a quote from tudou (or any commentator related to this isssue) he should have picked up the phone and made the call. Instead, it appears he trawled the web while drinking his morning coffee, found a quote that seemed relevant and published it. yes, a decent editor would have questioned the quote, but obviously this didn&#039;t happen (and again, is hardly a new thing and cannot simply be blamed on cost cuts in the industry). 

Furthermore, to deduce that this all came about because of the pressure and competition coming from blogs is, imo, rather fanciful.

The nepalise police photos is an entirely different argument and in my opinion came about through either general ignorance of Asian culture/politics, an over-eager picture editor, or a combination of the two and not the growing power of blogs. 

you can write all day about evil conglomerates and the wonders of 2.0, but at the end of the day it was a mistake. Not the first and not the last. The internet may highlight these mistakes (as in the Nepalise photo) more than ever before, and we are better off for that, but it certainly isn&#039;t the cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>regarding this single incident: of course it is lazy journalism.  if the journalist wanted/needed a quote from tudou (or any commentator related to this isssue) he should have picked up the phone and made the call. Instead, it appears he trawled the web while drinking his morning coffee, found a quote that seemed relevant and published it. yes, a decent editor would have questioned the quote, but obviously this didn&#8217;t happen (and again, is hardly a new thing and cannot simply be blamed on cost cuts in the industry). </p>
<p>Furthermore, to deduce that this all came about because of the pressure and competition coming from blogs is, imo, rather fanciful.</p>
<p>The nepalise police photos is an entirely different argument and in my opinion came about through either general ignorance of Asian culture/politics, an over-eager picture editor, or a combination of the two and not the growing power of blogs. </p>
<p>you can write all day about evil conglomerates and the wonders of 2.0, but at the end of the day it was a mistake. Not the first and not the last. The internet may highlight these mistakes (as in the Nepalise photo) more than ever before, and we are better off for that, but it certainly isn&#8217;t the cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-12804</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-12804</guid>
		<description>What I find very interesting, is how, having followed English language China blog-land for around 3 years, the collective &#039;blogosphere&#039; has a finger deep in pies across the country, from State-owned media to successful Internet start-ups to established business advisories to NPOs.  Yet this force, brought even closer together by Twitter, celebrates itself a lot, but is not well understood (aside from a few savvy journalists who know how to source from it) by the outside world.

What I propose is a large Masons type society, long term mutual benefits for members, and a code of practice.  To join you have to blog well and establish yourself in a nice.  Almost there, just need a code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find very interesting, is how, having followed English language China blog-land for around 3 years, the collective &#8216;blogosphere&#8217; has a finger deep in pies across the country, from State-owned media to successful Internet start-ups to established business advisories to NPOs.  Yet this force, brought even closer together by Twitter, celebrates itself a lot, but is not well understood (aside from a few savvy journalists who know how to source from it) by the outside world.</p>
<p>What I propose is a large Masons type society, long term mutual benefits for members, and a code of practice.  To join you have to blog well and establish yourself in a nice.  Almost there, just need a code.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-12803</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-12803</guid>
		<description>@Mike: Probably more like 500 bloggers. However, I don&#039;t think this is lazy journalism necessarily. I think it&#039;s &quot;cost (un)effective&quot; journalism, and I won&#039;t put all (or even most) of the blame on the journalists themselves.

In an effort to financially compete with bloggers, community journalism and various other UGC media, the old media corporations cut staff and resources until they can&#039;t but make stupid errors like the one above.

And I think you&#039;re wrong, largely this is a new problem. Maybe not as new as the concept of Web 2.0 and the blogsphere, but definitely only a couple decades old - starting when conglomerates started buying up media outlets, big and small, so that editorial decisions were decided in boardrooms not newsrooms.

Obviously this isn&#039;t universal, and business has always been a key component of the media. But now you have massive amalgamations, cut backs in staff and resources and fierce (if somewhat less professional) competition from legions of people doing it for free or next to free.

The problem, which was so clearly illustrated above, and more dangerously illustrated during last year&#039;s Tibetan riots (when news agencies famously ran images of Nepalese police in place of Chinese) is not a case of infallibility, but ridiculously careless actions.

WTF is China 3.0? And it has a backside? Where&#039;s its frontside?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike: Probably more like 500 bloggers. However, I don&#8217;t think this is lazy journalism necessarily. I think it&#8217;s &#8220;cost (un)effective&#8221; journalism, and I won&#8217;t put all (or even most) of the blame on the journalists themselves.</p>
<p>In an effort to financially compete with bloggers, community journalism and various other UGC media, the old media corporations cut staff and resources until they can&#8217;t but make stupid errors like the one above.</p>
<p>And I think you&#8217;re wrong, largely this is a new problem. Maybe not as new as the concept of Web 2.0 and the blogsphere, but definitely only a couple decades old &#8211; starting when conglomerates started buying up media outlets, big and small, so that editorial decisions were decided in boardrooms not newsrooms.</p>
<p>Obviously this isn&#8217;t universal, and business has always been a key component of the media. But now you have massive amalgamations, cut backs in staff and resources and fierce (if somewhat less professional) competition from legions of people doing it for free or next to free.</p>
<p>The problem, which was so clearly illustrated above, and more dangerously illustrated during last year&#8217;s Tibetan riots (when news agencies famously ran images of Nepalese police in place of Chinese) is not a case of infallibility, but ridiculously careless actions.</p>
<p>WTF is China 3.0? And it has a backside? Where&#8217;s its frontside?</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-12802</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-12802</guid>
		<description>A journalist makes an error (whether it was intentional or not, you don&#039;t make clear, but it was extremely lazy journalism). 

But what does this have to do with old media v new media? no-one ever claimed old media was infallible did they? news to me if they did...

So this example really exposes &quot;cracks&quot; in the old media sytem? Maybe, but in that case they are the same cracks that have been around for centuries (lazy journalists are nothing new). 

sounds to me more like China 3.0 disappearing up its own backside again. for every crappy AFP journalist, I&#039;ll give you 200 bloggers (many of them journalists). Sound about fair?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A journalist makes an error (whether it was intentional or not, you don&#8217;t make clear, but it was extremely lazy journalism). </p>
<p>But what does this have to do with old media v new media? no-one ever claimed old media was infallible did they? news to me if they did&#8230;</p>
<p>So this example really exposes &#8220;cracks&#8221; in the old media sytem? Maybe, but in that case they are the same cracks that have been around for centuries (lazy journalists are nothing new). </p>
<p>sounds to me more like China 3.0 disappearing up its own backside again. for every crappy AFP journalist, I&#8217;ll give you 200 bloggers (many of them journalists). Sound about fair?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Amico</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/china-stuff/china-politics-news/traditional-media-losing-the-plot/#comment-12798</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Amico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 04:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1382#comment-12798</guid>
		<description>The bigger issue, I think, is a collision between ignorance of the complexities of China&#039;s internet politics and a cultural need among journalists (speaking as one*) to have a credible explanation for what&#039;s going on. The fact is, we really don&#039;t know why YouTube or any other site gets blocked. We can guess, sometimes, but that&#039;s about as good as we can do.

(*though, of course, not speaking &lt;em&gt;for&lt;/em&gt; my employers or anyone else in mainstream or other media)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bigger issue, I think, is a collision between ignorance of the complexities of China&#8217;s internet politics and a cultural need among journalists (speaking as one*) to have a credible explanation for what&#8217;s going on. The fact is, we really don&#8217;t know why YouTube or any other site gets blocked. We can guess, sometimes, but that&#8217;s about as good as we can do.</p>
<p>(*though, of course, not speaking <em>for</em> my employers or anyone else in mainstream or other media)</p>
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