I am thinking we should get a list of what we define as laowai ghettos based in different cities of China…..for me, Shekou in Shenzhen HAS to be included……

anymore for anymore?

I’ll be moving to Chengdu at the end of July to teach, and I hope to experience the culture as much as possible.

I always say there are people who LIVE in China and people who WORK in China. The ‘work’ in China people basically live in the Laowai world and don’t mingle. Those of us who live here tend to be the ones who go and eat and drink at the local hangouts.

I plan to write a thing about this on my blog soon.

I don’t see the point of looking down on people simply because they don’t have the time or inclination to learn Chinese and make Chinese friends.
It’s not about looking down on anyone. The lifestyle choices for me re: cultural adaptation depends on my goals. If I was only gonna be in China for one year, I wouldn’t bother with much language study. But if I want to eventually function in Chinese culture contexts in Mandarin, my lifestyle choices will either hinder me or help toward that goal. If my goal was to go to China for work but with no real interest in Chinese people and culture, then the laowai culture bubble would be perfect for me, just like Vancouver’s Chinatown is a great fit for elderly Chinese immigrants who have no hope of learning English. Regardless of obnoxious foreigners who like to show off their language and cultural skills to other foreigners, the reality is that foreign culture bubbles hinder cultural adaptation.

We’re all in China – you’re not going to find another mix of people doing the same stuff anywhere else in the world, even if they are mostly foreigners.
I’m not saying laowai culture bubbles aren’t special cultural experiences; the mix of people is really interesting and personally I enjoy it. But if I live a foreigner lifestyle on an inflated foreigner salary and don’t regularly interact with Chinese people in Mandarin, how can I say I “live in China” or “experience China”? Only on the mere technicality that I am physically in the country. But at the level of human experience and culture, I’m effectively living in an Anglo-international culture-insulation bubble beyond the margins of Chinese society. It’s “experiencing China” the way an imported Chinese grandpa who speaks no English and never leaves Chinatown experiences Canadian society.

In fact, as many mainland Chinese will remind you, there is only one China.
I’m speaking culturally, socially and economically, not politically. There are “many china’s”: peasant China, urban China, special economic development zone China, migrant worker China, official privilege China, laowai bubble China – the list is almost endless. People can live in the same cities and even ride the same buses but live in separate worlds with vastly different experiences.

And we’re all here, just living.
“Kum Bay Yah…”

My point is that if we want to ‘experience China’ in any meaningful sense of the term, then it’s a good idea to get outside our laowai cultural bubble, because the experience of ‘China’ that we have inside the laowai cultural ghetto is not shared by 99.999% of the Chinese population and certainly not mainstream Chinese society. We can call that ‘experiencing China’ if we want on the technicality that we’re physically within the borders of China, but there’s very little recognizably Chinese about that experience. People don’t need to feel bad about not wanting to do much cultural adaptation. But if they do want to live in Chinese society, getting out of the culture bubble will be helpful.

PS – I agree with Ryan: your Canada/China comparison is meaningless. (I grew up in greater Vancouver.)

It’s statements like Joel’s that get to me:
“Arguing over what’s “real China” is sort of beside the point. There are many chinas, but if your neighbours are mostly laowais and Koreans and you spend most of your time in English, then you probably aren’t living in one of them.”

We’re all in China – you’re not going to find another mix of people doing the same stuff anywhere else in the world, even if they are mostly foreigners. In fact, as many mainland Chinese will remind you, there is only one China. And we’re all here, just living. I don’t see the point of looking down on people simply because they don’t have the time or inclination to learn Chinese and make Chinese friends.

I have to admit, I have benefitted greatly from “localizing” myself, but honestly, if I were here on different pretenses, living in Shun Yi or something on assignment from a multinational, I wouldn’t want to be judged any differently. I would be doing whatever it took to make sure my kids were growing up with good education, a balanced view on China, and a feeling of self identity and culture from their homeland with an understanding of how they are the same and different from Chinese people.

Maybe you are Canadian, I’m sorry I haven’t read your blog long enough to figure it out. Maybe you’re familiar with the multiculturalism experiment, and how it’s not yet finished being played out. I think the jury is still out on how “Canadian” new Canadians are, although I personally support the notion of them being Canadian and constantly helping us redefine what “Canadian” means. Anyway, I think the experience is still informative of what it means to co-exist in a place with people different than you.

I don’t think the point is to “become Chinese” though, but to take advantage of the opportunity to understand and learn about a culture that is foreign from your own. See where it is different and where it is the same. This, I think, is the true value of living abroad.

The difference between most Chinese immigrants (or any immigrant) to Canada and expats in China is the term in which they plan to stay in the country. I say most, as obviously this isn’t hard and fast. However, if you rounded up every laowai within China and took an average on how long they were going to stay in the country, I’m guessing it would be about 2 years.

That’s a snapshot of a culture at best. It’s better than a tourist, but it’s no where near as long as it takes to fully understand a culture/language/people. But if you spend that time actively immersing yourself in it, you will certainly have a more complete idea of what it’s all about.

I think there are a good number of people who feel there is more to get out of life then a job and money – in fact, I’d say a few people sacrifice those two for the latter two in your list.

Call me a crazy multiculturalist Canadian, but in the end, who cares how many Chinese friends you’ve got, and how much Chinese you can speak? How about you can live happily and get what you need to get done, done? I mean seriously, are you here to compete with Chinese people to see how Chinese you can be?

Back home in Vancouver and Toronto, we’ve got a whack of Chinese-Canadians. The thing that made me interested in China in the first place was that I had a friend whose parents had immigrated to Canada 14 years before, and still didn’t speak English. Are they less Canadian? How about the Chinese-Canadians who have jobs in normal companies, but just prefer to hang out with other Chinese-Canadians? Are they lesser folks?

Here in Beijing, are you going to criticize these people from Xinjiang who, thanks very much, would rather not hang out with Han people if they can avoid it? And if your Chinese friends are all minority people, is that lessening your “Chinese” experience?

I think it’s easy to get caught up in justifying your foreign existence here, but honestly, its mostly a big head competition. Get a job, make money, have fun, raise a family. It’s not just the Chinese way — it’s the human way. Cheers.