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	<title>Comments on: Grow Up China</title>
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	<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/</link>
	<description>No-nonsense China Expat &#38; Travel Community</description>
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		<title>By: 我</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-19115</link>
		<dc:creator>我</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-19115</guid>
		<description>妇人之见，你的一面之词</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>妇人之见，你的一面之词</p>
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		<title>By: 99%</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-12530</link>
		<dc:creator>99%</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-12530</guid>
		<description>it might be harsh what i said. but hey...isnt it difficult to keep smiling with their actions? enough is enough! i am sure that there is a little bit of truth in what i said. Ryan, feel free to edit/delete it if you please but i do not regret anything. do &quot;they&quot;? ;-). On the contrary: it was still a very controlled posting :-D. thanks for the ventile anyways...:-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it might be harsh what i said. but hey&#8230;isnt it difficult to keep smiling with their actions? enough is enough! i am sure that there is a little bit of truth in what i said. Ryan, feel free to edit/delete it if you please but i do not regret anything. do &#8220;they&#8221;? <img src='http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> . On the contrary: it was still a very controlled posting <img src='http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> . thanks for the ventile anyways&#8230;:-D</p>
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		<title>By: Scar</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-12528</link>
		<dc:creator>Scar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-12528</guid>
		<description>You sound pissed off man. But i can understand ya! I zhink most of us can! I think, the chinese should get this: Treat others the way YOU want to be treated or do not expect respect and mercy from others if you do not show any respect to them. Chinese do not seem to get it now, they also do not seem to be very realistic about their own situation ;-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You sound pissed off man. But i can understand ya! I zhink most of us can! I think, the chinese should get this: Treat others the way YOU want to be treated or do not expect respect and mercy from others if you do not show any respect to them. Chinese do not seem to get it now, they also do not seem to be very realistic about their own situation <img src='http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: 99%</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-12526</link>
		<dc:creator>99%</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-12526</guid>
		<description>Here, this is an original forum comment:

如果世界一定要有战争！宁可背负侵略者的名义，而绝对不能被别人侵略，那就什么都完了！！中华民族必将重新崛起，中华文化是世界最优秀的文化，最优秀的统治文化，西方文化是最完善的自然科学文化，管理还是中华文化最强！！中国文化从整体看问题，比如中医，中餐无不证明这些真理！！ 中国有理由领导世界，中国也有实力这么做！！

Machine translation:

If the world must certainly have the war! Rather shoulders invader&#039;s name, but could not absolutely by others aggression, that anything!! The Chinese nation will certainly to rise, the Chinese culture is the world most outstanding culture, the most outstanding dominant culture, the Western culture is the most perfect natural sciences culture, the management or the Chinese culture is strongest!! The Chinese culture looks at the question from the whole, for instance the Chinese medicine, the Chinese meal proves these truth all!! China has the reason to lead the world, China also has the strength such to do!!

I wonder, where this stupidity comes from. They spit, they piss on the streets, everything is dirty, they are not able to cooperate with anyone, they act like mentally disturbed fake smiling uneasy idiots when you talk to them face to face, they are not able to talk about anything except how to get rich and QQ and the differences between zhonguoren and THE waiguoren, they are not able to create anything by their own, they throw their shit on the streets, eat on shit, their food consists of vinegar, spicy and nothing else, they do not respect anyone and only care bout their own belly and wallet. beside a few fancy looking 500 years old towers (what´s left; what they did not destroy during cultura revolution) and a beep-cheep opera singing and old men with make-up, what else do they have? God damnit, they are like an smelly ape who comes out from the forest, buys a car, buys am armani suit and appears uninvited to your party, eats your food and gives a lession about his high culture to everyone without asking.

what a bunch of ridiculous people they are. yes, there are some rare good ones. that pessimist guy is right. we better be very careful here. we do not need to &quot;f***&quot; them (i mean we do not want it anyways, right?). you know why? because THEY will f**** THEMSELFS in the near future. happy us, we can just leave. IF we make it to the airport of course :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here, this is an original forum comment:</p>
<p>如果世界一定要有战争！宁可背负侵略者的名义，而绝对不能被别人侵略，那就什么都完了！！中华民族必将重新崛起，中华文化是世界最优秀的文化，最优秀的统治文化，西方文化是最完善的自然科学文化，管理还是中华文化最强！！中国文化从整体看问题，比如中医，中餐无不证明这些真理！！ 中国有理由领导世界，中国也有实力这么做！！</p>
<p>Machine translation:</p>
<p>If the world must certainly have the war! Rather shoulders invader&#8217;s name, but could not absolutely by others aggression, that anything!! The Chinese nation will certainly to rise, the Chinese culture is the world most outstanding culture, the most outstanding dominant culture, the Western culture is the most perfect natural sciences culture, the management or the Chinese culture is strongest!! The Chinese culture looks at the question from the whole, for instance the Chinese medicine, the Chinese meal proves these truth all!! China has the reason to lead the world, China also has the strength such to do!!</p>
<p>I wonder, where this stupidity comes from. They spit, they piss on the streets, everything is dirty, they are not able to cooperate with anyone, they act like mentally disturbed fake smiling uneasy idiots when you talk to them face to face, they are not able to talk about anything except how to get rich and QQ and the differences between zhonguoren and THE waiguoren, they are not able to create anything by their own, they throw their shit on the streets, eat on shit, their food consists of vinegar, spicy and nothing else, they do not respect anyone and only care bout their own belly and wallet. beside a few fancy looking 500 years old towers (what´s left; what they did not destroy during cultura revolution) and a beep-cheep opera singing and old men with make-up, what else do they have? God damnit, they are like an smelly ape who comes out from the forest, buys a car, buys am armani suit and appears uninvited to your party, eats your food and gives a lession about his high culture to everyone without asking.</p>
<p>what a bunch of ridiculous people they are. yes, there are some rare good ones. that pessimist guy is right. we better be very careful here. we do not need to &#8220;f***&#8221; them (i mean we do not want it anyways, right?). you know why? because THEY will f**** THEMSELFS in the near future. happy us, we can just leave. IF we make it to the airport of course <img src='http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-12371</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-12371</guid>
		<description>I generally agree with that Peteryang, certainly that the fenqings are the more vocal of the bunch.

The problem, IMO, is that through passive methods of foreign media discreditation and the micro-managed manipulation of the masses (alliterate much Ryan), the moderates aren&#039;t being asked to be rabid nationals - they&#039;re being asked to be passive aggressive nationals. Not as scary as the fenqing, but almost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I generally agree with that Peteryang, certainly that the fenqings are the more vocal of the bunch.</p>
<p>The problem, IMO, is that through passive methods of foreign media discreditation and the micro-managed manipulation of the masses (alliterate much Ryan), the moderates aren&#8217;t being asked to be rabid nationals &#8211; they&#8217;re being asked to be passive aggressive nationals. Not as scary as the fenqing, but almost.</p>
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		<title>By: Peteryang</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-12370</link>
		<dc:creator>Peteryang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-12370</guid>
		<description>there are moderate and intelligent chinese, lots of them, lots, absolutely no one I&#039;ve talked to in real life behaved even remotely similar to fenqings, so I know fenqings are minority, you see many of them because they are most outspoken on the web, so it&#039;s an illusion per se.

so I believe the moderate and intelligent are the majority here, you don&#039;t hear them because they are held back by ignorant mobs and state censorship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there are moderate and intelligent chinese, lots of them, lots, absolutely no one I&#8217;ve talked to in real life behaved even remotely similar to fenqings, so I know fenqings are minority, you see many of them because they are most outspoken on the web, so it&#8217;s an illusion per se.</p>
<p>so I believe the moderate and intelligent are the majority here, you don&#8217;t hear them because they are held back by ignorant mobs and state censorship.</p>
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		<title>By: pessimist</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-12336</link>
		<dc:creator>pessimist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 08:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-12336</guid>
		<description>Feds, it is all going down in a big bloody BOOM one day. There is no other way to reset the system. We, as foreigners living here, we better do not make long term plans in China and keep a careful eye on whats going on on the streets and in this beautiful chinese middle ages mind. Do not flee into illusions and react FAST when the day comes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feds, it is all going down in a big bloody BOOM one day. There is no other way to reset the system. We, as foreigners living here, we better do not make long term plans in China and keep a careful eye on whats going on on the streets and in this beautiful chinese middle ages mind. Do not flee into illusions and react FAST when the day comes.</p>
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		<title>By: Off The Record &#187; Blog Archive &#187; America, Obama, me and lessons for China</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-12332</link>
		<dc:creator>Off The Record &#187; Blog Archive &#187; America, Obama, me and lessons for China</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 05:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-12332</guid>
		<description>[...] In this regard it was profoundly disappointing to see sections of Obama’s speech censored by the Chinese Government, like that line about facing down fascism and communism through “sturdy alliances and enduring convictions”.  But even more disappointing than that has been the childish – even imbecilic – way many Chinese bloggers have taken affront to Obama’s speech, reading his comments as an attack on China itself and referring to the President as an “ignorant country bumpkin”.  As the Lost Laowai blog put it, it is time China&#8217;s netizens grew up. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In this regard it was profoundly disappointing to see sections of Obama’s speech censored by the Chinese Government, like that line about facing down fascism and communism through “sturdy alliances and enduring convictions”.  But even more disappointing than that has been the childish – even imbecilic – way many Chinese bloggers have taken affront to Obama’s speech, reading his comments as an attack on China itself and referring to the President as an “ignorant country bumpkin”.  As the Lost Laowai blog put it, it is time China&#8217;s netizens grew up. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Feds</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-12328</link>
		<dc:creator>Feds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-12328</guid>
		<description>Frankly, most of the leadership isn&#039;t educated in the sort of fields that would quality them for the type of finesse required in public relations.  They&#039;re all technocrats, and thankfully that.  Some of the first generation of leaders were far less subtle in their speeches and writings.

The education system in China isn&#039;t helping either.  Trained to memorize facts, not write well-crafted arguments, the average university graduate does the same blame game every time something goes wrong.

Plus, now that it&#039;s okay to be in private business, most of the top young talent is probably going for the bucks, and not for public service.  So unfortunately there might not be much improvement in the leadership of the country for a while.  The lure to join politics?  Likely all the money to be made from bribes.  But just as much and more can be made in private enterprise these days.  

And one more kicker - the little emperors are coming into their prime.  When they take over and discover they can&#039;t always get their/China&#039;s way... watch out!  Tantrums galore.

So Ryan, I guess it comes down to this.  Are we going to see much better?  Not for a looooong while in my opinion.  The elite upper crust in this country who are well-educated, refined people and hold sophisticated and balanced views are quiet.  They are out there, and there numbers are increasing, but they&#039;re drowned out in a system designed for the un-silent majority.  

I think the education system and the quality of people joining the Party and climbing the ranks is going to produce more of the same: hurt feelings and over-voiced outrage at any slight.  As medium-term ex-pats we feel for China and try to defend it sometimes.  Perhaps we&#039;re being played, being made into apologists for a country that is known to use foreigners.  Though sometimes justified, we&#039;re supposed to think China is the victim.

Great post, I&#039;ve been reading more of this type of &#039;grow up China&#039; theme for a while now.  Anyone reading it on Chinese blogs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly, most of the leadership isn&#8217;t educated in the sort of fields that would quality them for the type of finesse required in public relations.  They&#8217;re all technocrats, and thankfully that.  Some of the first generation of leaders were far less subtle in their speeches and writings.</p>
<p>The education system in China isn&#8217;t helping either.  Trained to memorize facts, not write well-crafted arguments, the average university graduate does the same blame game every time something goes wrong.</p>
<p>Plus, now that it&#8217;s okay to be in private business, most of the top young talent is probably going for the bucks, and not for public service.  So unfortunately there might not be much improvement in the leadership of the country for a while.  The lure to join politics?  Likely all the money to be made from bribes.  But just as much and more can be made in private enterprise these days.  </p>
<p>And one more kicker &#8211; the little emperors are coming into their prime.  When they take over and discover they can&#8217;t always get their/China&#8217;s way&#8230; watch out!  Tantrums galore.</p>
<p>So Ryan, I guess it comes down to this.  Are we going to see much better?  Not for a looooong while in my opinion.  The elite upper crust in this country who are well-educated, refined people and hold sophisticated and balanced views are quiet.  They are out there, and there numbers are increasing, but they&#8217;re drowned out in a system designed for the un-silent majority.  </p>
<p>I think the education system and the quality of people joining the Party and climbing the ranks is going to produce more of the same: hurt feelings and over-voiced outrage at any slight.  As medium-term ex-pats we feel for China and try to defend it sometimes.  Perhaps we&#8217;re being played, being made into apologists for a country that is known to use foreigners.  Though sometimes justified, we&#8217;re supposed to think China is the victim.</p>
<p>Great post, I&#8217;ve been reading more of this type of &#8216;grow up China&#8217; theme for a while now.  Anyone reading it on Chinese blogs?</p>
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		<title>By: chriswaugh_bj</title>
		<link>http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/expat-stuff/china-expat-rants/grow-up-china/#comment-12327</link>
		<dc:creator>chriswaugh_bj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lostlaowai.com/blog/?p=1199#comment-12327</guid>
		<description>@Ryan:

1: I admitted to nitpicking right at the start of my comment.

2: You should study some more Communist theory. Communists believe that communism is the end state of history in which the State has melted away, allowing the people to live free and equal lives free of all oppression. I&#039;ve never heard any Chinese person, let alone the Chinese government, claim that China had yet reached that state. See, history is supposed to unfold this way: primitive/hunter-gatherer to feudalism to imperialism to capitalism to socialism and finally to communism. China is ruled by a party that calls itself communist, but said party calls itself communist because, in theory at least, it believes that the end-state of human history is that communist ideal in which the state has melted away and the people naturally lead good, communist lives.

What is that communist state? As Marx and Engels wrote in the Communist Manifesto, &quot;From each according to his ability; to each according to his need&quot;. In other words, in that ideal world we all contribute what we can and receive in return what we need. No communist party I ever heard of claimed to have ever achieved that.

Communism is to a communist what Nirvana is to a Buddhist or Heaven to a Christian, in other words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ryan:</p>
<p>1: I admitted to nitpicking right at the start of my comment.</p>
<p>2: You should study some more Communist theory. Communists believe that communism is the end state of history in which the State has melted away, allowing the people to live free and equal lives free of all oppression. I&#8217;ve never heard any Chinese person, let alone the Chinese government, claim that China had yet reached that state. See, history is supposed to unfold this way: primitive/hunter-gatherer to feudalism to imperialism to capitalism to socialism and finally to communism. China is ruled by a party that calls itself communist, but said party calls itself communist because, in theory at least, it believes that the end-state of human history is that communist ideal in which the state has melted away and the people naturally lead good, communist lives.</p>
<p>What is that communist state? As Marx and Engels wrote in the Communist Manifesto, &#8220;From each according to his ability; to each according to his need&#8221;. In other words, in that ideal world we all contribute what we can and receive in return what we need. No communist party I ever heard of claimed to have ever achieved that.</p>
<p>Communism is to a communist what Nirvana is to a Buddhist or Heaven to a Christian, in other words.</p>
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