I’ll leave my stance in relation to “What the Chinese do…” with this – there are a lot of things that your average Chinese person puts up with, due to habit, lack of knowledge or a lack of empowerment, that I think no one should put up with. Bad customer service, though a relatively small issue, is one of these things.

@Chris: I have a feeling we’re going back and forth on this because we’re arguing two different points. You were raising an environmental issue, whereas I’m defending the article as not being an environmental issue, but one of general customer service.

Fair enough, but I still think I’m right and you’re wrong.

I’ve nothing else to do

I find that rather difficult to believe.

When did I say consuming less doesn’t have an effect on the environment? You’re talking about “saving” not “consuming less”… Perhaps the latter was your intended meaning, but there is a huge difference in the semantics.

If I talk about “saving paper”, I find it hard to imagine that anyone could assume I’m not talking about consuming less paper, as opposed to … what … maintaining a paper collection in a spare room of your apartment?

from what I’ve observed while living here, Chinese people are no better (if not worse) at reducing/reusing than those people I know from other countries.

You know, I understand where this feeling is coming from, and am often dismayed at some of the things I see. For example, as you pointed out before, running the AC with the doors and/or windows open. Nevertheless, I’ve also seen more frugality in many areas of everyday life than what I’m used to seeing back home.
With regards to my original comment, whether the Chinese are better or not at “saving” is irrelevant. I was just expressing irritation at Steven’s complaining about the lack of AC. I guess I didn’t express it very clearly before. To me, the environment is a very important issue, and one which most people seem to disregard. I’m willing to put up with a lot of discomfort in my own personal life in order to try to make a smaller “footprint” on the planet. I’m also, frankly, embarrassed by how wasteful westerners (and Americans, in particular) are of resources. So that’s where my irritation comes from.

You can’t be hypocritical when you’re creating your own, adjustable, standards to hold others to. I’m just not sure what the word is that describes that.

I’m not either; how about Jonas’: pomposticator. Anyway, “adjustable” here is meaningless. Everyone’s standards are different, and hopefully adjustable (when a new bit of knowledge comes to light, for example). I guess you’re implying that my standards are out-of-line with the norm, which is probably true. But let me clarify that what I most objected to was that Steven complained to the store owners or cab drivers, trying to get them to change their habits to suit his idea of what customer service should be, at the expense of the environment. If Chinese customerscan put up with it, why shouldn’t we? Is that fair enough? Can you see now why I think that your bringing up my being a user of AC or appliances is completely irrelevant?

You hi-jacked this post and made it an environmental issue to flaunt your views on what a great conservationist you are, and how much we need to learn from you about it.

Tut, tut, tut. “Hijacked”? That’s a strong word — when exactly should the posting of a reaction be considered hijacking? As for “flaunting my views on what a great conservationist I am”, this language is also offensive to me, they seem to be designed to shame me into silence. Should I be ashamed that I have views, or that I value the environment? This kind of reaction is exactly what makes it hard, sometimes, to ask other people to turn off the AC when you think they should.

But… well, my foot hurts and I’ve nothing else to do.

This is absurd. Of course consuming less has an effect on the environment. Recycling isn’t 100% efficient.

When did I say consuming less doesn’t have an effect on the environment? You’re talking about “saving” not “consuming less”… Perhaps the latter was your intended meaning, but there is a huge difference in the semantics. So, assuming you’re talking “reuse/reduce” by saying “save”, then of course it’s going to have an environmental benefit. My problem with this is, and has been through the course of this thread, that from what I’ve observed while living here, Chinese people are no better (if not worse) at reducing/reusing than those people I know from other countries.

Please, don’t get me started on the our fictitious ideals in regards to modern recycling.

You vex me. This is a fallacious argument. You’re now compounding the problem by committing the fallacious technique of argument by repetition. Yes, I use large-wattage, power-consuming devices, but I try to reduce my usage whenever I can, which is what I’ve been promoting.

Sorry Chris, you’re absolutely right, “hypocritical” is simply the wrong word to use. You can’t be hypocritical when you’re creating your own, adjustable, standards to hold others to. I’m just not sure what the word is that describes that.

This is well illustrated by you saying:

“I don’t think that means that we, as individuals, shouldn’t do what we can when we can, to conserve.”

At what point did ANYONE say we shouldn’t?

You hi-jacked this post and made it an environmental issue to flaunt your views on what a great conservationist you are, and how much we need to learn from you about it. However, it’s still (and how’s this for argument by repetition) simply a customer service issue.

Advocating someone turn on the AC on a scorching day, turn on the lights in my local supermarket so I can see what I’m buying (which I really need to suggest), or turn on the heater in my January-frozen classroom so I can write on the board – these aren’t strictly environmental issues.

These are standards of living issues. The reason we’re so concerned about the environment? Yep, standard of living. I dare hazard to say you’ve no true love for the trees and the birds, and nor do I. We’re all just concerned that excesses in comfort now may lead to a drastic change in comfort later.

And the reason I so disagree with what you’ve said here isn’t at all that I disagree with your point – in fact I believe we share similar ideas when it comes to the environment – it’s that I disagree with the pretense that you could dictate someone else’s standard of living based on what you’re willing to sacrifice to make yourself feel like you’re making a difference.

@Anastasia & Chris: Other than electricity, how does saving anything save the environment? Saving paper, or cardboard boxes or whatever… doesn’t “do” anything but give the recycling aiyi’s less to pick up.

This is absurd. Of course consuming less has an effect on the environment. Recycling isn’t 100% efficient.

@Chris: The “hypocritical” thing was only in reference to the fact that you use large-wattage, power-consuming devices to make your life more comfortable but were holding yourself above Steven for saying as much.

You vex me. This is a fallacious argument. You’re now compounding the problem by committing the fallacious technique of argument by repetition. Yes, I use large-wattage, power-consuming devices, but I try to reduce my usage whenever I can, which is what I’ve been promoting.
Are you averse to admitting that you’re wrong? I ask because, in this instance, it’s blatantly obvious, and when I’ve thought about it, I can’t remember any time when you’ve done it.

The A/C argument is somewhat void.

I disagree. I think it’s a good argument. You’re right that AC usage will inevitably increase here as the standard of living goes up, but I don’t think that means that we, as individuals, shouldn’t do whatwe can when we can, to conserve.

@Chris: The “hypocritical” thing was only in reference to the fact that you use large-wattage, power-consuming devices to make your life more comfortable but were holding yourself above Steven for saying as much.

And the “not summer yet” thing… was that just baiting? I mean, 25°+ is summer to me, and 30° with humidity leaves no doubt. I’m sitting here in my underwear sweatin’ my tits off – May or not.

As for the turning off of the AC and advocating others do the same, good on ya. Whenever I see this behavior I do the same… well, rather, I usually just shut the window, but to each their own.

A more interesting point is, had you often seen this behavior back in North America? I never did, but I’ve seen it numerous times here. Opening a window when the AC is on has always been, to me, akin to pouring used oil into the sewer – it’s just not something that anyone with half a brain does.

The A/C argument is somewhat void. People are going to want climate controlled environments – our focus should be on making them more power efficient, better insulating rooms/windows/doorways, etc. And none of this has to do with the fact that when you buy a Snickers bar or a diet coke on a hot day (in “Spring” or not), it shouldn’t be gooey or warm (respectively).