I find it unlikely that there could be a foreigner in China that doesn’t know the name Dashan, and there’s certainly no Canadians unaware of the mystical Big Mountain of Chinese. 大山 comparisons, jokes and CCTV9 Chinese lessons have been a formative staple over the course of my time in China.
This past November the following question was posted on Quora: Why do so many Chinese learners seem to hate Dashan (Mark Rowswell)? He seems like a nice guy. Does he secretly eat children or something?. I’m sure we all have our own answers to that question, but none are likely to come close to the insight and self-reflection that the big Canuck himself answered with yesterday.
Mark Rowswell, the man behind the Mandarin, broke it down into 5 reasons:
- Overuse – People are sick and tired of hearing the name “Dashan”;
- Resentment (Part A) – Dashan’s not the only Westerner who speaks Chinese fluently;
- Resentment (Part B) – Being a foreign resident in China is not easy and Dashan gets all the breaks;
- Political/Cultural – People wish Dashan had more of an edge;
- Stereotyping – The assumption that Dashan is a performing monkey.
The whole answer is a bit lengthy, but well worth the read. Here are a few choice excerpts:
On why Dashan is so popular (related to #2 above):
… Dashan represents or symbolizes something very powerful to a Chinese audience. I don’t want to get too deeply into this, because my answer is already running too long, but let me say this: Chinese have a very complex and conflicting view of themselves and the world at large. They have a very strong self-identity and sense of pride, and this leads to a strong sense of “us vs. them” and of being misunderstood and misaligned by the rest of the world, or the West in particular, as well as a strong sense that they are gradually losing their language and culture in the process of globalization. In the face of this, Dashan represents a Westerner who appreciates and respects China, who has learned the language and understands the culture and has even become “more Chinese than the Chinese”. It’s a very powerful and reassuring image that appeals to very deep-rooted emotions.
On being Canadian (related to #4 above):
Culturally, the Dashan character does tend to be quite Canadian. We’re just not as aggressive in general as Americans. The adjective most used to describe Canadians is “nice”. How dull and boring can you get?
Although Canada and America are very close culturally, there are some fundamental differences. Primarily, Canadians never consider themselves to be number one in anything apart from hockey. And although we are both relatively young nations built by successive waves of immigration, Canadians have a much weaker self-identity than Americans. We don’t have a strong mainstream culture of our own, which I think makes us more malleable culturally. When Canadians come to China, we don’t do things “the Canadian way” because nobody has the slightest idea what “the Canadian way” is. So we tend to adapt pretty well to different cultures.
On why Dashan isn’t political (also related to #4 above):
… So I work within cultural norms. This spills over into the political realm, because, to be honest, Chinese cultural acceptance of foreign political criticism is almost nil. In short, I don’t have to worry about what government censors might say because Chinese audiences would never let me get that far anyway.
I could make a short public statement like that of Christian Bale recently or Björk a few years ago. It’s very easy to do and ensures you get very good coverage in the Western media. You go home and everyone thinks you are a person of moral conviction who stood up to the great Chinese monster. But the fact is that these kinds of statements elicit almost no sympathy whatsoever from ordinary Chinese citizens. They simply are not culturally acceptable to the broad Chinese audience. And it’s very difficult to see what impact they have other than to further convince ordinary Chinese people that China is misunderstood and that the Western world is antagonistic towards China and resentful of China’s development. What use is that?
I’m curious to read what others think of Dashan. John, of Sinosplice, mentioned in his post on this topic that, “the hubbub about Dashan has finally started to die down”. I can’t tell if this is true, or if after a certain number of years you just stop noticing it. Any FOB laowai still cringe at the mention of Dashan by a taxi driver? Do the new generation of foreigners in China even know who Dashan is?
Ryan's called China home for nearly seven years now. A short time to some, a long time to others, for him it's just right.
In addition to creating 
I’m Canadian and I’m not sure if I qualify as a “new” generation foreigner, since the turn over here seems to be about once every three months and I’ve been consistently in and out of China since 2006.
I do cringe when Dashan is mentioned. In fact, I take a motorbike nearly everywhere to avoid the sort of taxi drivers who insist on mentioning him.
I’m really impressed with the excerpts printed above, however. They show a real knowledge of China. What I wonder, is however, if any criticism of China will is viewed by Chinese as an example of how “the world just doesn’t understand us,” how should I react to the fact that the extent of the majority of Chinese people’s understanding of my country is that we have an annoying laowai who smiles like a moron and speaks really good Chinese?
I’m not FOB (first visited China in 1999 and moved here permanently in 2005). I almost never get compared to Dashan, and I don’t resent him, probably for that reason. Perhaps it’s because I’m a girl? Other Lady Laowai wanna chime in on if Dashan’s name comes up when they speak Chinese?
Or perhaps it has nothing to do with gender and it’s just because my Chinese level doesn’t even bear a (negative) comparison to Dashan. Sigh. Must go study Chinese now….
He’s a regular guy, married, two kids, takes them camping and horse riding in Mongolia…leave him alone. Dashan is a character, sometimes people find it hard to separate the real person from the myth or don’t want to believe there’s a difference.
Through the Chinese media presentation of him I do see him as more of a dancing monkey that speaks Chinese and like Ryan said being more Chinese than Chinese. I saw last years Chinese new year special on CCTV, it had other Chinese speaking westerners on it so they were showing something a little different than just DaShan being overly Chinese…
He’s probably a really nice guy, but the Chinese media put him on a pedestal and say “This is what you foreigners here should be like”
The only real problem I have with DaShan is he’s too Chinese and I do envy his Chinese ability, but I’m working on it
x
Now I come to think of it, the Dashan comparison is not something I have heard (in Beijing) for a few years. Maybe it’s because especially in somewhere like Beijing, the average Chinese person is long past the idea that Chinese is next to impossible to get to grips with.
Your average Beijing taxi driver is simply that much more likely to deal with perhaps dozens of foreigners a week for whom conversing in Chinese is not much trouble.
If anything, could we be witnessing the beginning of the end for ‘shock and awe’ at Mandarin skills and the start of the period of an expected and demanded degree of fluency from local listeners?
Indeed, I’ve noticed an ever increasing phenomenon over the last few years of some Chinese people mocking the butchered tones of those foreigners less versed in the language.
Could there be a pattern forming of how us laowai and our language skills (or lack of) are viewed? From wonderment to amusement to impatience?
Wise words said to me from many years ago: “Always remember you are a guest in China”. As soon as any foreigner starts getting beyond that in attitude, problems begin.
Dashan incidentally is a character in the long Chinese tradititon of taking the piss out of other characters (including old Chinese men with their birdcages and pot bellies) as anyone who watches Chinese TV – especially at Spring Festival will know. His character is not especially targetted at foreigners, it’s just a send up. As for the man – he’s quite a cool bloke actually. Again, don’t confuse a TV character with the private individual.
PS: Christian Bale isn’t REALLY Batman.
@CDE – he’s not? Hot Damn! That’s nearly as bad as learning about Santa Claus.
@Chris Devonshire-Ellis: Don’t you think the idea of being a permanent ‘guest’ is just a tiny bit insulting?
I respect Dashan for not wanting to question certain sensitive issues while in the full glare of the media spotlight, there is a time and a place for everything.
Nevertheless, that doesn’t mean one must never say a bad word about or offer constructive criticism of, China.
Up to you, though, if you want to be the good little dumb laowai in the corner that is an unquestioning ‘friend of China’, then be my guest, as well as China’s.
It’s pretty funny how Mark refers to Dashan in the third person… like a ‘character’ he created
Yeah I remember when Ashton Kutcher tried to distance himself from the goofy spaz “Kelso” character too. Eventually (6 movies later) it caught on.
@Jiong – I’d say that behaving with decorum in someone elses country and culture is an asset rather than being, as you say, a dumb little laowai. But that’s just my dumb little opinion after all. Good luck with your version. – Chris
@CDE – Behaving with decorum is excellent advice. How much decorum is involved with taking 5-minute Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce meet & greets with a variety of government officials and then lying about it — for years, mind you — and writing that they are your pals and offer you significant insider details when, as the Chinese government has repeatedly stated, it’s a total lie? Since Dashan isn’t known as a liar or a fraud, I think he’s perfectly acceptable. Not so much CDE though.
I’m foreigner living in China for more than half year, not teaching and never heard about Dashan and don’t know why should I, while I read daily at least 10-20 websites about China, but until now it seemed unimportant to know about him
@Chris – You seem to be confusing expressing a critical opinion with being rude and bad mannered. I am perfectly well behaved where ever I am, even in my ‘own’ country where by your rule I am no longer a guest and can go around insulting people left, right and centre.
I suppose you’d say that of course a tourist of 2 weeks in China is a guest, or even a businessman here for a month is a guest. How about a student doing a year’s language course, yep, you’d still call him/her a guest. How about someone who’s been here years and has invested in a business that employs locals and pays taxes, still a guest? And if that person stays for decades and even marries a local and raises a family as the breadwinner, are you going to force the term ‘guest’ on them, still?
Can you see how that might be just a wee bit insulting?
Yeah, whatever. Your issue not mine.
Hes right and you’re inarticulate
The fact that I always found 大山 to be really bland and annoying (I’m an individualist and opinionated United Statsian-I use the pc term b/c he’s technically an American too), and that I was (and am) jealous of his Chinese skills, are what led me to my distaste for him. I think there’s a lot of ego involved, and most language learners who take their task seriously are really trying to please the Chinese around them (which really makes one motivated to perform, but a bit resentful when some middle-aged Canadian guy can talk circles around you). I don’t know of another white Canadian family-man I bear any resentment towards. That being said, I found his comments quite insightful, and appreciate the separation between the character and the person. Way to go Mark Roswell, for speaking such damn good Chinese. By pissing off thousands of laowai who secretly want to steal your tongue, you provide the the perfect motivation to improve language competency.
It is amazing how learning a language and learning a culture can be divorced. That is what I see in China where every student has to learn English but few know about the places or ways or thoughts of foreigners.
Does Da Shan help Chinese people understand what is do different about Chinese and English speaking cultures? I don’t think so.
If the issue is that you have to always see yourself as a guest (and be polite), then one should not try to help the Chinese understand western culture. The official media and the English education curriculum here doesn’t want to teach that.
Da Shan is an obstacle for foreigners who want their students and counterparts to be anything but flippant about foreign culture because Da Shan shows the Chinese that foreigners can behave like a pet.
English speaking culture is not a threat to China but the longer I am here the more I see that there are few ways for regular Chinese people to be exposed to authentic foreign. Too bad Da Shan doesn’t (or can’t) do something about that.
You’re totally right about the disconnect between language and culture – you’ll meet plenty of young Chinese students, even some who’ve lived abroad for a while, who still come out with silly stereotypes about laowailand.
This is understandable, though, for most people (not just Chinese) a foreign language is simply a tool for expressing your own culture and ideas to another person, not necessarily learning their culture, too.
That doesn’t stop it being annoying and it is well known that Chinese expect foreign learners to wet themselves with excitement over Chinese poetry, fan dancing and agree with the entire Chinese world outlook on certain regions beginning with ‘T’.
You’re right to say Dashan does nothing to redress the balance and he isn’t supposed to. Dashan (as he admits) reinforces the Chinese notion of the student exceeding the master which is accentuated by the foreigner exceeding the Chinese person in their own culture.
It’s good to want to dispel myths about the West and share with Chinese people some of the other ways of looking at things. The key is to approach the topic through culturally accepted means and by showing cultural sensitivity.
The advice given above by CDE is fine for people just starting out learning the language and culture, and while one should always be polite, this guest attitude only serves to hinder greater and more meaningful interaction, or even friendship. After all, how can you be friends with a Chinese person if you think of yourself as his guest instead of his equal?
True. I
As a Chinese, I also dont like Dashan. cause he seems cater to the Chinese government,CCTV.He should know who pay for him,It is the Chinese people!!
Dashan nowadays is much less present in ads, TV, interviews, you name it, compared to a couple of years ago. I had reservations towards him as well back then, but, after encountering more and more inhabitants of the Laowai-Biotope over the years, I recognized that he did more than many others to bridge the cultural divide.
As for the guest issue, I agree with CDE’s wise adviser. And I don’t think there is anything negative about it. Quite the opposite – as a guest, one listens and is listened to.
On the other hand, there are more wise words, always at least in the back of my mind:
‘Whenever I take my ways abroad, what bloody fools I see, but, such the justice of the Lord, they think the same of me.’
Richard Hughes claimed this to be an ancient Chinese proverb, but it sounds much more like coming from the man himself. He, too, was a wise man.
I’m sorry but people get very angry if they actually move to a foreign country and build a life there, if they are forced into forever remaining a guest because the sensitive Chinese psyche ant take any criticism at all. Who owns China – the government, the people? The government weren’t voted for by the people so they have no legitimate power claim. Therefore they can be criticized by anyone. The Chinese are a diverse bunch of people. It could even be true that a Mongolian finds more in common with an American than with a native Ninboese! Is there really one idea of a foreigner, and one idea of a Chinese? So why don’t we just assume that we are all citizens of the world with roots in countries. Can you really all claim you love your country that much anyway? Americans spend most of their time gawping at Angela Jolie or watching an Italian movie director like Bertolucci ‘s The Godfather, whilst drinking coffee imported from Kenya and eating kungpo chicken takeout.
Chinese students are obsessed with American basketball and English football. They have their aggressive nationalism forced on them mostly by their education system.
For me, a Chineseman can criticize England and we can criticize China, because ‘the good’ is really a Platonic Universal, The Good, which transcends all countries and is heavenly.
T
But how did the guy manage to become so visible in China and still manage to particpate in alien autopsies in the USA?
Are you thinking “Roswell”?
More than likely Steve is just not thinking.
In my opinion, Dashan happened to be the very first foreigner under spot light that amazed Chinese people with his fluent Chinese. At the time that he became well-know to almost every single Chinese household, there were no Internet or any other way of media broadcast other than TV. His debut in CCTV Chinese New Year show was viewed by almost all Chinese who were sitting in front of TV at that moment since all other channels were broadcasting the same show – that was the 80′s of China. His overnight fame was also a reflection of Chinese’s rising admiration of the western culture at that time of the centuary, especially among the young generation.
You might wonder what he did for western culture by speaking Chinese? Not much as a matter of fact, but the image he delivered on stage at those years – healthy, courteous, modest, humorous and handsome, together with shockingly fluent oral Chinese, is good enough to brand the “good” western culture to Chinese as friendly, humorous and smart.
Nowadays, people in big cities of China are getting used to spot foreigner around speaking good Chinese. Well, still, a fluent speaker is still not that easy to find(this blog might be a better place to find some
) All I need to say is Dashan has built a connection between the two sides of culture. I’m looking forward to seeing people from western to add more angles and insights into Chinese culture, it will only benefit more to people on both sides of culture.