Comments on: Crossing The Line http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/ The no-nonsense China expat and traveller community. Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:03:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Tam http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9633 Tam Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:38:03 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9633 Edot, what you've mentioned is a good point and highlights the confusion that crossing boundaries causes, especially for the student, but not exclusively so. I know teachers who have felt the loss of former student "friends" deeply. Any relationship is a two way street, requiring committments from both sides to be maintained and sometimes this simply isn't possible, or practical. Whilst a student may only have one foreign teacher, the average foreign teacher has hundreds of students. I have found that students "move on" to new foreign teachers readily enough, and have their own circle of Chinese friends to advise and support them. My role as a confidant for my students is usually temporary, and once they have received advice they are happy enough to move on. I too have fulfilled my "role" and expect nothing more. I have maintained contact with very few students, despite hundreds having my email address and this suits me fine. Those that keep in touch with me, I absolutely respond to, I love hearing about their lives/jobs and knowing I've helped them feels pretty good. Of course, teachers are not perfect, we make mistakes, or perhaps don't have the time or desire to maintain friendships with students when we return "home", but I feel (based on my experience) this is a minority of teachers. Edot, what you’ve mentioned is a good point and highlights the confusion that crossing boundaries causes, especially for the student, but not exclusively so. I know teachers who have felt the loss of former student “friends” deeply.

Any relationship is a two way street, requiring committments from both sides to be maintained and sometimes this simply isn’t possible, or practical. Whilst a student may only have one foreign teacher, the average foreign teacher has hundreds of students.

I have found that students “move on” to new foreign teachers readily enough, and have their own circle of Chinese friends to advise and support them. My role as a confidant for my students is usually temporary, and once they have received advice they are happy enough to move on. I too have fulfilled my “role” and expect nothing more.

I have maintained contact with very few students, despite hundreds having my email address and this suits me fine. Those that keep in touch with me, I absolutely respond to, I love hearing about their lives/jobs and knowing I’ve helped them feels pretty good.

Of course, teachers are not perfect, we make mistakes, or perhaps don’t have the time or desire to maintain friendships with students when we return “home”, but I feel (based on my experience) this is a minority of teachers.

]]> By: Matt Schiavenza http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9632 Matt Schiavenza Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:37:14 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9632 Dan q, Not sure if morality has anything to do with it. I think most of this advice is simply practical. Dan q,
Not sure if morality has anything to do with it. I think most of this advice is simply practical.

]]> By: Dan q http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9590 Dan q Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:57:54 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9590 new to these forums and this post strikes me as a little ridiculous. Those who ignore it, do so, and are well aware of what goes on. Those who do not, subject themselves to western morality. curious. new to these forums and this post strikes me as a little ridiculous. Those who ignore it, do so, and are well aware of what goes on. Those who do not, subject themselves to western morality. curious.

]]> By: EDot http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9579 EDot Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:00:55 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9579 One other thing... many of my Chinese students talk about the foreign teacher they made friends with and confided in, but then the teacher left China and they never heard from the teacher again. More of the "what happens in China stays in China" attitude - or is it some kind of "those students were not real people like my friends at home (whom I would never dream of treating this way if they confided things like this to me or put this much effort into our relationship)"? Incredibly painful to the student, who took a risk in confiding to or making friends with this foreigner, only to be ignored/dropped once the foreigner leaves. At least send a new year's greeting, people, to the students with whom you spent the most time. One other thing… many of my Chinese students talk about the foreign teacher they made friends with and confided in, but then the teacher left China and they never heard from the teacher again. More of the “what happens in China stays in China” attitude - or is it some kind of “those students were not real people like my friends at home (whom I would never dream of treating this way if they confided things like this to me or put this much effort into our relationship)”? Incredibly painful to the student, who took a risk in confiding to or making friends with this foreigner, only to be ignored/dropped once the foreigner leaves. At least send a new year’s greeting, people, to the students with whom you spent the most time.

]]> By: Lonnie http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9566 Lonnie Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:18:22 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9566 Great advice. One day we should put together a good newcomer's primer for teachers with work like this. Great advice. One day we should put together a good newcomer’s primer for teachers with work like this.

]]> By: Tam http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9564 Tam Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:58:17 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9564 Interesting post and not least because of the references to the students not having a sympathetic ear. I was initially amazed at the "agony aunt" role I played to some of my students, most often boys, and been almost speechless at their requests for advice. That they feel there's no-one else to turn to, and choose to explain their dilemmas in English, to a woman... I do think there's something in the separateness of using a different language to communicate though, as well as perceived freedoms, that encourages this. Interesting post and not least because of the references to the students not having a sympathetic ear. I was initially amazed at the “agony aunt” role I played to some of my students, most often boys, and been almost speechless at their requests for advice. That they feel there’s no-one else to turn to, and choose to explain their dilemmas in English, to a woman… I do think there’s something in the separateness of using a different language to communicate though, as well as perceived freedoms, that encourages this.

]]> By: ChinaMatt http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9563 ChinaMatt Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:08:23 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9563 These should be common sense, but there are definitely a lot of foreign teachers who seem to lack such sense. I avoid interacting outside of school with my students because I want to maintain a student/teacher relationship (i.e. I don't want them thinking they'll get a better grade because of it). However, the rules change a bit when working at a training center--outside activities are much more acceptable then. These should be common sense, but there are definitely a lot of foreign teachers who seem to lack such sense. I avoid interacting outside of school with my students because I want to maintain a student/teacher relationship (i.e. I don’t want them thinking they’ll get a better grade because of it). However, the rules change a bit when working at a training center–outside activities are much more acceptable then.

]]> By: Matt Schiavenza http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9558 Matt Schiavenza Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:14:35 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9558 Ryan, Thanks. Quite a few of us, especially in the beginning, have a footloose and fancy-free attitude toward being in China, sort of a "what happens here stays here" attitude. So it's instructive to remember that as teachers, we leave deep impressions on our students and our relationship with them isn't to be taken too lightly. Ben, The "door open" policy is a good one and something I forgot to mention. Ryan,
Thanks. Quite a few of us, especially in the beginning, have a footloose and fancy-free attitude toward being in China, sort of a “what happens here stays here” attitude. So it’s instructive to remember that as teachers, we leave deep impressions on our students and our relationship with them isn’t to be taken too lightly.

Ben,
The “door open” policy is a good one and something I forgot to mention.

]]> By: Ben http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9557 Ben Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:10:38 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9557 One more about lunches, dinner, outing, etc. Be very sure that there is a third matured person around. And if you can't avoid being in a room with your student alone, leave the door open, or go outside. You can't be too careful. One more about lunches, dinner, outing, etc.

Be very sure that there is a third matured person around. And if you can’t avoid being in a room with your student alone, leave the door open, or go outside. You can’t be too careful.

]]> By: Ryan http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/2008/04/21/crossing-the-line/#comment-9555 Ryan Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:07:01 +0000 http://www.lostlaowai.com/commentary/blog/?p=482#comment-9555 Definitely good advice Matt - cheers for sharing. I've taught pretty much every level of student in China at some point and find that kids at that high school level are the most challenging, but also the most rewarding. It's no coincidence either that the teachers I remember most (due to impact, not just length of time) are my high school teachers. Regardless of age though, that teacher-student relationship is something (us) ESL teachers can easily forget. The job tends to be a break from "real life" and quickly becomes just a distraction in the way of travelling and experiencing living in a different country/culture. Your post is a good reminder of the impact even (especially) foreign teachers can have. Definitely good advice Matt - cheers for sharing. I’ve taught pretty much every level of student in China at some point and find that kids at that high school level are the most challenging, but also the most rewarding.

It’s no coincidence either that the teachers I remember most (due to impact, not just length of time) are my high school teachers.

Regardless of age though, that teacher-student relationship is something (us) ESL teachers can easily forget. The job tends to be a break from “real life” and quickly becomes just a distraction in the way of travelling and experiencing living in a different country/culture.

Your post is a good reminder of the impact even (especially) foreign teachers can have.

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