For their Perspectives feature in the Expat Corner, eChinaCities asks laowai and native Chinese alike to comment on issues that affect all those who live in China. This week’s question was, “Would you rather raise your children in China or abroad?” I ended up writing a much longer response than is necessary for the Perspectives feature, so I’m posting the longer version here. The final Perspectives article should be up sometime in the next week or two.
I’m not sure if I’m entirely qualified to comment on this topic, since I have no children and don’t plan on having any for a long time, by which point, I will probably have left China (but you never know). That said, take what I say with a grain of salt. I would need to understand China a lot better before I decided to raise my children here. I’ve only been in China since August; I would want to have at least three years or so of experience living in China before I decided to bring kids into the picture. I would also want to do a *lot* of research into citizenship, schooling, rights, responsibilities, etc. before doing so. It’s not a decision I would make lightly.
That said, being raised in a foreign country by expat parents (or one expat parent) can help to raise children with open attitudes towards differing cultures, especially if the parents and/or children plan to return to the home country at some point. As an American, I believe it would only benefit my children to be raised in China and then brought to the US later. I think it would give them a better understanding of cultural differences (especially because the differences between living in China and living in America are so vast).
Perhaps it would better equip my children to avoid the traits of American culture that I see as negative; strong individualism with little to no regard for other people, rampant consumerism and a constant desire for more “stuff” (something of which I am entirely guilty), lack of respect or regard for elders and culture, poor work ethic. Obviously, these are not broad-stroke problems with all Americans, but they are certainly problems that are perpetuated in American culture, whereas traditional Chinese culture tends to discourage these traits heartily.
I also think raising children in a strictly-controlled society and bringing them into a “freer” society might help them appreciate the positives of American culture, as well. Things that abound in America, such as the freedom of information (not 100% free there, either, but better than China), access to culture and quick travel, higher general standard of living (at least, for someone with my teaching position, if not for everyone), availability of conveniences, and the mixed cultural aspects throughout the country (what I wouldn’t give for a small town with an Italian restaurant here!) are simply not present throughout most of China.
Obviously, these observations are based on my (very limited) understanding of China, and are heavily colored by my current location, which is a very small town. Beijing would be drastically different. My opinion is also based on being an American with my particular view of American culture.
There are negative and positive aspects to every culture, but only through exposure to more cultures can we become more tolerant of that which we don’t understand. Therefore, I think it would be beneficial to raise children with experience in more than one cultural setting, so if I had the opportunity, I would raise my children in China and teach them to use that experience to inform their critical thinking of all other cultures, including American culture.
Thoughts? Comments?
Katie (finally) finished her undergraduate degree in education and decided to take on her biggest challenge ever - teaching teenagers in a foreign country who don't speak her language! She's been in China since August of '09, and is currently teaching in a small town in Hunan and enjoying spicy food at every meal.
I agree with most of what you say, particularly in regards to understanding different cultures. By living in China, even the simple knowledge of what goes on in day-to-day life can put a person lightyears ahead of kids raised in just one country. Raising children in China in general would be great if it weren’t for the education system here. By the way, citizenship is impossible, which is fine, because who wants it?
I find it somewhat humorous that you bring up “no regard for other people” and “poor work ethic” as bad american traits?? Compare charitable giving between China and America. Look at the way Americans treat perfect strangers as opposed to their counterparts in China. Now, if you meant “less regard for FAMILY MEMBERS”, then yes, China is doing much better. Americans have bad work ethic? Seriously?
Ever heard of the “little emperor syndrome”? You’ll have to dig a little deeper to understand how the Chinese have been raising their children in the last 30+ years.
I agree with chip: Raising children in China in general would be great if it weren’t for the education system here. I want my kid to learn his Chinese heritage, but I do not want it to be in the mainland school. Period.
“but they are certainly problems that are perpetuated in American culture, whereas traditional Chinese culture tends to discourage these traits heartily.”
Wow, you ARE new to China aren’t you.
We left China for this reason. Raising children in China does have many attractions initially. Chinese people generally love kids – and indulge laowai or hunxue kids especially. Places such as restaurants are much more tolerant and welcoming of children and there are far fewer restrictions (being kicked out of a pub garden in the UK because we had an infant with us was one aspect of reverse culture shock). But as the kids started to get older, we got tired of the constant little nudges to conform and adhere to Chinese expectations – eat more food, wear more clothes, do more study. We also found that as the kids started to play, they found other kids either weren’t available or weren’t allowed to kick a ball around or just ‘play’.
And of course, once they get near to primary school age, you open the whole Chinese education system can of worms.
In the end we just found it so much easier and less pressured to get our kids settled in a school back home, not to mention the lack of bureaucracy and fees. We left behind friends who said they would raise their kids with the best of both worlds, but I don’t think it works out like that. While they always said they would resist the peer pressure to do all those hothouse parent things (piano lessons, after school tutoring, etc), they still talk about it all the time.
So our kids won’t grow up to be maths whizzes or exam slayers. But they will know what it’s like to walk barefoot, to splash in the sea, to roll down a grassy hill, and to cross at zebra crossings knowing the cars will stop.
They miss being the centre of attention, but they don’t miss being kidnapped for photgraphic purposes or force fed by well meaning relatives.
Sorry if I sound mean but living in another culture certainly hasn’t opened up YOUR mind, it seems. I’m Chinese but I’m not trying to be defensive here ’cause I do think children should be educated in their parents home country before they go abroad. It’s just that your idea of what Chinese culture is leaves a great deal to be desired. I hope you won’t be discouraged though ’cause there’s plenty of time for you to learn. But do try and keep an open mind.
@Chip: I agree about the Chinese education system. It’s nowhere near ideal (though America’s isn’t either, but for almost completely opposite reasons). I think maybe we’ve experienced different aspects of American culture, though. I did say the problems don’t affect all Americans, but that it’s a problem of culture. I don’t mean Americans have bad work ethic. I mean American culture tends to prize getting rich as quickly and with as little work expended as possible (for example). Americans are always striving for making life easier and more convenient. Lots of people in my age group haven’t ever had to wash a dish in their life. I feel like China doesn’t always go the way of convenience – in fact, things are downright inconvenient here, and I think that teaches a valuable lesson.
@sinojet: I can’t really speak to how the Chinese raise their children, not being Chinese myself. And most Chinese children aren’t raised with an expat parent, so they don’t really fit into my scenario above – I wasn’t talking about Chinese child-rearing methods, but instead about expats raising their kids in China.
@Baratrice Ogi: Yes. As I plainly said.
@michael: That’s a great point about not having peers to play with; I didn’t even consider that. I guess in very large cities, people could probably find a bunch of expat-kids and organize a playgroup, but that also creates an us-them kind of situation, which isn’t preferable. Thanks for the first-hand account of the decision you made, and the second-hand accounts of your friends who made the other choice.
@Ji Feng Jing Cao: Well, I certainly hope my mind is opening. I’ve only lived in China for 4 months. As I said before, my experience with China is very limited. Your argument, that experiencing another culture hasn’t opened my mind, only proves my point – I was raised in one culture, with only an American perspective. Perhaps if I’d been raised with one Chinese parent and one American parent, I’d have a better understanding of China. Traveling to a country in my late 20s for a short period of time is really incomparable to being raised in a foreign country by one or two expat parents. Rather than put my understanding of China under fire, why don’t you tell us *why* you think children should be raised in their parents’ home country? Do you mean that American children should be raised in America and then brought to China, and Chinese children should be raised in China and then brought to America? If so, why?
Thanks for the shoutout Katie! First off, a disclaimer: I am happily childless and not too worried about the effects of any country’s education system on my cat since he doesn’t listen to anyone anyway.
Second, I think kids are pretty resilient. It helps a lot if parents help instill in their kids in interest in education and a lot of other things but even that’s not 100% necessary. If they manage to escape being poisoned by their toys, shot by a neighbor, or killing themselves because of a faked Myspace profile I think most of em have a decent chance of turning out okay.
Third, how you look at this as a foreigner depends a lot on where you grew up. Some people talk up the virtues of American ed but many major American cities have public high school systems with graduations rates under 50%. That’s f-in crazy. Many foreigners in China come from middle class and up backgrounds. A lot of us are white. This has a big impact on how we see these things and while that’s totally appropriate when thinking about our own individual choices on questions like this, it’s not necessarily a reality shared by a majority of our countrypeople. The public schools in *Beijing* look a whole lot nicer than the ones my friends and I attended in the US and the students study harder and learn a lot more. Memorization or not, attendance and graduation are much higher, the cops aren’t parked outside all day long and there are no metal detectors at the doors. I don’t mean this as a comparison of public schools, I’m just trying to point out we tend to think of some of these big issues in rather rote, insufficiently nuanced ways.
On an unrelated note, since I’ve moved here I’ve wished pretty much every single day that I’d grown up here and didn’t start learning Mandarin in my 20s.
I’m all for open minds and open discussion and look forward to future articles and comments. I’ll end this mess with a quote from god: “Go forth, be fruitful and multiply.”
@Katie,
So basically what you are saying is American emphasis on efficiency is a bad thing? I’ve washed dishes by hand (3 years in china), what was the lesson I learned? I learned that I should buy a dishwasher. Which I then did.
In terms of the education system, I have some friends with a son in first grade in a typical chinese school. From the beginning of the semester they made sure they emphasized to both their son AND the teacher that they didn’t want to see his grades and would not care. So far it’s been working.
@Chip: I think the American emphasis on efficiency *can* be a bad thing, when it results in lazy behavior. I think America’s current teenagers are a prime example of people who expect things and expect them right now, and with little work on their part. Again, not all teenagers, but certainly the culture of teenage life. And I think people in the green movement who think dishwashers waste water and electricity might have an argument with the lesson you learned.
Glad to hear your friends’ plan is working, though, that’s heartening. Any word on whether their kid has anyone to play with, like Michael mentioned?
I’ve always thought that children should be raised by wolves, just like I was. Reading “Wolf Totem” convinced me that Chinese wolves are definitely superior to the American variety.
I’ve been thinking about this lately since I plan on spending another year in China and we all know what that lead too…
Before I left America I had a feeling that public education was failing in some way with all its emphasis on standardized testing and a focus on mediocrity. Plus there is still an anti-intellectual miasma that permeates much of society. And on top of all that colleges have the audacity to lay off educators, raise fees and tuition. Now is just when Americans need education the most, yet a college diploma doesn’t guarantee you the ability to pay back a school loan or get a job. But school certainly is a nice place to socialize and play organized sports.
China’s education on the other hand seems like a form of oppression itself with all its forced memorization and exams. It creates a culture of teaching to the exam and a culture of cheating. I heard tell of a dean of one college saying to another laowai (he was complaining that the students stole the answer key to his final exam when he stepped out of the room), “Didn’t anyone tell you? Cheating is normal in China.” And in the words of one of my Chinese English majors, “School kills your creativity and passion.”
Clearly, both countries are in dire need of educational reform.
But in the meantime, here’s a novel idea: It takes a village to raise a child. Like minded laowai who value education can band together to create a community school house. Then our children can get the best of both worlds: Chinese & Western, and community & home schooling. I’m sure there are a lot of “serious teachers” here who could make this happen. But this would only work in places with sizable expat populations. (Sorry, Random Smallville, China – I did my time, now I’m out of here!) Ultimately, the best education a child can receive is provided by open-minded parents who value education and lifelong learning in the first place.
I felt the need to share with you the story of Jason Bromby, a 28-year-old British diplomat. He came to China to discuss foreign policy. He has now gone missing. Please read more:
http://www.maolovesyou.com
Spread the word, something needs to be done!!
Katie, thanks so much for raising this topic, as this subject is rather relevant to my near future.
I always swore that living in China is all well and good when you’re single or newly married, but when kids come into the picture you need to get the fuck out.
Now at the half-way mark of expecting my first child, my opinion has rather drastically changed. Especially in the early stages, raising kids in China has a lot of advantages — the biggest of which being costs.
Even with free healthcare in my home country, the costs of raising a baby in China is immensely cheaper. Support things like nannies, maids, etc. are a minor cost in a country like China, but out of reach of most new parents in Western countries.
Of course food/gear/toy safety is a huge concern of mine, but I think this is an area where China is steadily improving, and also an area that can be solved by not cheaping out. By this I mean, just because you can buy cheap knockoff baby equipment on Taobao, doesn’t mean you should.
Sticking to boutique brand importers of Western goods or the import section of the local Carrefour may cost a bit more by Chinese standards, but if you’d pay that much in a Western country for quality goods, why wouldn’t you pay for that safety here? Seems like a no brainer — especially when you’re saving a bundle on everything else.
Of course this doesn’t negate safety concerns. Not by a long-shot. My stomach is going to clench every time I get into a taxi with my kid. Air and water quality alone has me looking at moving.
And of course, education. This is now the big milestone for me. Whereas I’ve decided to start raising my kid in China, education age is now the “move home by” date on my passport.
But there’s an out there as well. I happen to call a number of international school teachers friends. If I can afford it; putting my kid in an international school that teaches a progressive curriculum, exposes my kid to a myriad of cultures and allows us to extend our stay in China, is a definite possibility.
Again, thanks Katie, Michael, and the rest of the comment-givers for addressing this issue. It’s great to have a resource of experiences to look at.
Having had our children in both the US’s public schools and now in China’s I feel like I should have something to contribute, but it’s not a question with an obvious answer. Both countries offer different paths to raising kids. Both school systems have different strengths. In the big cities (in both America and China) you can choose how much you want to integrate into the main culture. And these same cities offer a variety of school choices, giving you further flexibility.
Our hope is to raise children with an open perspective on the world. Having them grow up within both cultures is one way to do it. We’ve opted out of the international school route for now (many parents complain that it’s hard for their children to gain fluency in Chinese in those schools), but likely will use them for high school. But this path is just our path, and of course is not the only way.
The key, I believe, is have the courage to follow your beliefs, and to listen to your children and help them do the same. All countries put all their people under pressure to behave certain ways, this isn’t just a problem of China or China’s school system. In fact living abroad helps us see these mass pressures within our home cultures more clearly. In America some of our children’s friends have picked out their college choices already, at age 11. Parents can talk endlessly of the merits of different prep schools, and speak of our decision to use public schools as akin to child abuse. In China our children are learning that they can get zero points for giving a correct answer because it ‘was done wrong’, and some teachers think we are crazy/uncultured because we don’t care how our children do on their exams.
There is craziness everywhere, but I have hope that if we have respect for all those around us, without feeling like we need to buy into their system, good paths can be made wherever we are (though part of me agrees with the poster who said that children should be raised by wolves).
The sweet thing about Taobao is that you can also buy a baby, not just the equipment. So long K-Mart blue light special. Imagine growing up with a shanzhai sibling. Best of luck to you Ryan, if you ever need a babysitter in Beijing let me know.
Katie, welcome to China – I find your post provoking and the responses as well – needless to say as a newbie to China and a childless one at that; your impressions , attitudes, and thoughts on this subject will change and dramatically I hope.
This is an issue I think about a lot and I’m not an expert either. There are pros and cons like anything, but one thing I think about is that by the time I finally have kids, China will have changed, especially by the time they go to school, so there is no telling.
Schools aren’t really an issue because there are tons of international schools and they don’t even have to be american schools. With this your child could speak english at home, say korean at school, and then chinese while out and about all at a young age. It sounds good to me.
I’ve heard that it is difficult for children to grow up between cultures. We feel like outsiders as expats now but if we had no real culture identity? I’ve heard that most of these children turn out fine but some do end up… odd. I say I would have liked growing up abroad but studying abroad in high school already changed me enough to not be considered “american” among my peers.
Katie, thanks for sharing. Your fresh insight is valued. You will indeed learn more as you go, as we all will on this expat journey. It will be good to hear your thoughts after three years! I will check in on your blog every now and then. Good luck! Here’s an article on raising kids overseas:
http://www.escapefromamerica.com/2009/11/options-for-educating-your-expat-child/
@fred
“I’ve always thought that children should be raised by wolves, just like I was. Reading “Wolf Totem” convinced me that Chinese wolves are definitely superior to the American variety.”
You obviously didn’t read Wolf Totem. First off, they were MONGOLIAN wolves not Chinese. The book is very critical of Chinese people (eg. calling them sheep, no nothing farmers/peasants and so on).
They actually complement Western Societies constantly throughout the book.
@Peter
I did in fact read Wolf Totem though it was a while ago. You are absolutely correct that they were Mongolian wolves. Since it’s been a while I don’t remember how they (author and main character or the Mongolians as well?) compliment western societies. I recall the main character has a bunch of books with him — are they western texts?
@fred
First “papa” compliments Western Societies most notably for keeping their wolf-like attitude. How they still eat with aggressive forks and knifes instead of passive chopsticks. How they fight wars, etc. Later on, the author goes on to say just about the same thing. I’ll look for the citations (as you know, its a long book).
How do you feel about the ending?
@Peter
Sorry for dropping the ball on the response. Don’t worry about citations, I believe you. I’ll have to go back and do some rereading anyways as the idea of the W’ern/wolf relation is really interesting and I didn’t give it enough notice on the first go-round. Was the ending when he goes back 20 years later or was that a postscript? My memory of that is pretty faint as well I’m afraid. I’ll look at it again and get back to you. Your thoughts?
Yes, we have to think about kids career in detail, as competition is growing everywhere. Learning chinese will be the best for children in current situation. . .chinesesphere